The Movement Prescription

Nature's Healing Power: A Chat with Maggy Blagrove from Open Minds Active

• Season 1 • Episode 15

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Join Dr. Hussain Al-Zubaidi as he explores the magic of nature with Maggy Blagrove from Open Minds Active. This UK-based organisation is all about bringing people together outdoors for better mental health.

What Open Minds Active Does:

  • Open Minds Active helps people reconnect with nature through outdoor activities like wild swimming and yoga.
  • They have a team of experts who make sure everyone feels welcome and included.

Their Core Values:

  • Community: Creating a friendly space where everyone can have fun together.
  • Equality: Making sure everyone, no matter their background, can enjoy nature.
  • Environment: Respecting and enjoying the great outdoors.
  • Resilience: Helping people feel mentally strong through outdoor movement.
  • Adventure: Encouraging exploration and excitement in nature.
  • Self-care and Care of Others: Teaching skills to cope with life's challenges and supporting each other.

Nature's Healing Effects:

  • Spending time in nature reduces stress and improves mental well-being.
  • Activities like wild swimming and yoga outdoors can boost resilience.
  • Inclusive Communities:
  • Open Minds Active creates safe spaces where everyone can join in outdoor fun, regardless of who they are.
  • Many people have found joy and support in this community.

Open Minds Active aims to reach more people and spread the benefits of outdoor activities for mental health.

Discover the power of nature for your well-being with Dr. Hussain Al-Zubaidi and Maggy Blagrove. Open Minds Active is making outdoor adventures accessible to all, showing that nature truly has the ability to heal and unite us.

Produced using funding from NHS Tayside Educational Fund and the British Society of Lifestyle Medicine.

Find us at https://themovementprescription.co.uk/

Hussain:

Welcome to the Movement Prescription Podcast, a podcast which aims to inspire, educate and transform physical activity in primary care. And my name's Hussain. I'm a passionate lifestyle GP based in Warwickshire with a real love for physical activity. And on today's episode I'm going to be speaking to Maggie Blackgrove. Now Maggie is a founder at Open Minds Active which is a social enterprise based in Bristol and we first met at the Valley of Swimming report in the Houses of Parliament. It was fantastic to see then the passion that she had in using open water swimming to support people's health, in particular, their mental health. And I loved her approach of engaging those in society that have least access to tools like open water and how she and her team are going about addressing just that. In this episode, we're going to talk about the benefits that open water swimming brings, both physical and mental. And we're going to understand a bit about Maggie's professional journey when it comes to engaging physical activity in communities. I found it really insightful in particular understanding how I can approach going into the open water when it's a little chillier something that I've probably chickened out of a few times in the past, and Maggie has a fantastic energy and warmth which I think really comes across, so without further ado do, I introduce Maggie Blackgrove from Open Minds Active. Hello and welcome to the podcast, Maggie.

Maggy:

Well, thank you very much. I'm very excited to be here.

Hussain:

It's our pleasure. To start off with, we always like to get an idea of how your relationship to physical activity started, going back to when you were a kid. So, you know, tell us a little bit about how you fell in love with movement well.

Maggy:

I've always been an outdoors kid I grew up in a village um and it was very much that time when your parents would be like right go out and see you at tea time that was that was kind of how we grew up so we were always up to something and outside and being near water and not necessarily traditional sport because my parents didn't drive so I didn't really have access to sports clubs but But as I got older, I wasn't really into school sport. I found it wasn't particularly inclusive. And this is unfortunately back in the 80s. And, you know, school PE back then wasn't great. But when I went to university and I had access to all these different clubs that I just tried everything. I tried mountain biking. I tried judo. I tried swimming, netball, you name it. And it was much more inclusive. Some of the sports less so, some of the more traditional sports. But there were lots of things you could have a go at. And that's really where I found a love for moving and also encourage encouraging other people to move as well. Um so everything I did revolved around that social connection being outside getting muddy throwing yourself down hills or having adventures outside that's really what I fell in love with and.

Hussain:

What was it about because obviously there's all these clubs that are lots of universities and you've gone from being a kid in school that wasn't really switched on with it from how it was taught in a competitive sort of way and PE what was it about the clubs in university that didn't have that vibe because I often find that sometimes there's still that competitive element uh in those uni groups.

Maggy:

Yeah I think I was I think it was a bit of luck I think it you know I went for the kind of maybe the less trendy clubs back then as well and I tried the more you know judo nobody was doing judo apart from me and a couple of friends but we met other people there and we We just had such a laugh and we were doing it. And then actually with those friends, we were like, oh, do you want to go and try? Like there's like a hiking group. We're going to go out on Dartmoor. And so I was at university down in Devon. So that kind of led to other things. But I think it was the fact that it wasn't like school PE. And I know school PE has come a long way. But it was that self-managing aspect and of like. That self-led and that you could decide what you wanted to do and how you were going to do it. And it was, everything was a choice. So, you know, I went to one of the netball clubs and that was very competitive. And I felt like I was back at school being, you know, picked last for a team. And, but a lot of the other clubs, especially the nature-based ones was a different vibe. Like you could just go out and hike. The emphasis was on being together outside and moving rather than on like we're going to be really competitive and we have to achieve this so I find that there was a difference there um the judo really taught me about um movement in a different way movement that I'd never done before growing up I'd never done martial arts or anything like that so I was kind of you know 18 when I tried it for the first time and it was really fun um and I got a lot out of that and I found that the more sports or activities that I did the better rounded my movement was as well I wasn't limited to just one thing um and the the social element and that connectedness with each other really drove me to think well why isn't everybody doing this and and the more I kind of did different activities I very much am a a jack of all trades and a master of none when it comes to sport I just love moving and being active and I found the more as I kind of went through my career and went through various different other moved to different locations I was always struck by what brought people together in terms of movement and physical activity and what separated people. And I found there were some sports where that community was built easier and there were other sports which felt more segregated or more competitive.

Hussain:

Yes, very good point. And I think kind of what you touched there about having multiple different movements is becoming more and more important. Because in the work that I do in longevity medicine, one of the key components is that if we are going to harness all the benefits of physical activity to achieve a long, healthy and happy life, you have to have multiple movements. You can't expect to just cycle your way to good health on its own, because otherwise you're not going to be working the balance. You're not going to be working strength, coordination. And I like how even sort of early on you had that kind of natural desire to move in lots of different ways. And I think that's really important, isn't it?

Maggy:

And I think, you know, especially I've for the last 20 years, I've worked in community development and I've really ended up working in sport for development, you know, getting people to move. And the biggest thing is sometimes how we frame it especially as women you know even just using the word sport sometimes people are like ah whereas when you break it down um and and for see see it what it is the movement the social connection is the feeling better the having that functional movement it becomes less intimidating and it starts removing some of those barriers to sport and that's a big part of my role really without realizing it in my early 20s and now into sort of my late 40s um especially those women who are facing menopause and we need to move in a different way um is i feel even more passionate about that um and that we have this we maintain and we develop this functional movement and have that physical literacy and we can use it at any and we can gain it at any point in our lives.

Hussain:

And what did you study at university, if you don't mind me asking?

Maggy:

Nothing related to sport. I did German and Italian, neither of which I use now at all.

Hussain:

So when did you start working in this field of sort of physical activity and community?

Maggy:

I think because I saw, I enjoyed it so much. And I moved to Bristol around 20 years ago, and I was working in youth work and development. And like as many people in their mid to late 20s, you fall into things and um I ended up working with a group of young lads who had been disengaged who disengaged with school and nobody knew what to do with them and this was like you know the late 90s early 2000s and I was like well let's get them out um in the local forest and just play games and the teachers are like what I was like yeah it'd be great and so um that's exactly what we did because I was like well that's what I did as a kid and um we had amazing um outcomes with these lads we had an absolute scream they loved it and they started you know we built really great relationship with them and we started uncovering some of their issues of why they weren't attending school and you know they ended up kind of coming back into school and then it was about that time where people were like yeah we've got to get these kids out and moving and doing something positive and it didn't have to cost the earth because there was no money then there's certainly no money now So it was looking for these like affordable solutions that we could have to. Give young people a bit of agency and give them some fun and just get them out moving and I worked with a local policeman at the time who was um they had these school beat managers in secondary schools and the kids they absolutely loved being chased around the forest by a policeman they thought it was the best thing ever the policeman in that process lost about three stone, because he got so fit but also had an amazing relationship with the kids so I I learned a lot from those early days and then we looked um i worked for an organization called second chance which has kind of evolved into another organization now but we looked at how we could use sport in prisons to engage young offenders to get to help her through the gate service um so that when they came out of prison they had a connection with a sport or football club or someone in the community that could help guide them so for a long time i've been involved in this how we can use sport for social change and it has evolved later in life to kind of getting people to move and my passion is getting the the less visible people moving for whatever those reasons might be and removing some of those barriers to physical activity creating connection creating community and having fun like if the activity isn't fun and people don't want to do it or they might do it but they won't it won't last as long that's a big part of what we do um that open minds active is we make everything fun.

Hussain:

Gamifying activities, whether they be walking, jogging, cycling, etc., can be such a good way to increase engagement. And it's really nice to hear that, you know, that's methods that you've also used. Now, you mentioned Open Minds Active. Can you tell the listeners a bit more about that if they haven't heard about that before?

Maggy:

Yeah, so back in the pandemic, like so many people, I lost... A lot of work you know I became unemployed and I'd always had this idea of I've always been passionate about getting people out in nature because that's how I grew up and that was a very privileged position to be in of just having that nature on my doorstep and just being out in it all day and I realized when I moved to Bristol I moved in I've lived in London and I've lived in Bristol that these opportunities are not it's not equitable not everybody has that um and I felt a real social sense of injustice around that why people are not accessing green or blue spaces um so whilst I was you know on my one hour exercise a day I also around this time had started swimming um not competitively but long distance I really loved open water swimming and I'd worked so a long time in community sport and um with very within very diverse communities and while I was swimming and going wild swimming with so many other people in lockdown because all the pools were shut I was really struck by an inequity in those people who are accessing these wild swimming spots. You needed a car see which means you needed money but most importantly you needed to know how to swim and where these places were and I realized there was just a lack of diversity and inclusion in outdoor spaces so with my kind of sport for development hat on I was like okay we why is this? We're in a mental health crisis now with coming out of the pandemic and nature and moving in nature is a really simple and effective, cost-effective way of making people connect with each other and feel better. But in order for us to do that, we need to work out why not everybody is accessing these spaces. Obviously, there's lots of reasons that we know why, but there's lots of reasons that we don't so that's where where open wise active was born is that I was going open water swimming with a handful of friends and I'd recently or over the previous couple of years had lost both my parents so I was struggling with my mental health and I felt when I was going swimming particularly in the outdoors just surrounded by blue nature birds friends friends this ritual of going every week doing the same thing laughing especially as the water started getting cooler as the as we get towards autumn I was like this is you know this is gold like everyone should have access to this so that was where the mental health and well-being idea came from but then I wanted to make this more accessible and that's when I started discovering about the social prescribing element but whilst during this I met this wonderful woman during lockdown called Wafaa Sulaiman. Who's now a very close friend and colleague of open minds and we were sat chatting on a park bench and she was like gosh i really miss swimming she was a refugee from sudan and she was a former competitive swimmer in sudan yeah and she said to me i just miss swimming so much and i'm like come on let's go like she went all the pools are shut this was still in the pandemic i was like doesn't matter we'll go away from what swimming there's a place nearby so we went together and had a great time and she said Maggie this is what I want to do I really want to remove some of these barriers for women of color particularly Muslim women like myself and she went I think we could do this together so whilst I'd had this it was just a coming together of um all different elements at the you know right time right place and uh so we set up our own learn to swim program for women of color with a view for me of getting all these women outside as well eventually and finding a space removing these barriers and the biggest barrier was they couldn't swim and we know that from stats from the black swimming association around such worrying numbers around women or people of color not learning to swim or having that knowledge of water safety for whatever reason so we were like right okay this is something that we're going to do so that was the learn to swim element and then during the summer months we were like okay let's see if we can break down another barrier which is getting these women outdoors so the learn to swim program then fed the outdoor learn. To swim program and we've i think we've taught we think about 200 women to swim in the last well since 2021 fantastic yeah and that's just one element so whilst all this is happening then we've got the social prescribing that then sort of developed yeah.

Hussain:

No fantastic and and like Like, how do you see the Open Minds Active going forward in the future? Like, what's the sort of key projects that you've got coming down the line? Because it seems like you've done some fantastic work already. Have you got certain ambitions going forward?

Maggy:

I think, you know, our vision is well-being for all, using the outdoors, plain and simple. And when you undercut, when you unpick that, like how we're going to get there, is really about how we create this movement, social connectedness and togetherness, which helps, which also protects these green and blue spaces that we access. You know, our environmental climate change is really kind of at the bottom of it underpins everything that we do because we want to protect these spaces that we love. So there's activism is a big part of what we do as well. But I think in the short term, we want to are the wild swimming and well-being social prescribing program that we do outside, which runs all year. I would really like to um we've developed a model and a methodology and it really is um there's lots of social wild swimming groups which are amazing up and down the country and I fully support those but we've been working with health care practitioners and social prescribers GPs lots of health care professionals around how we've developed this program which which is a six-week program, which then people afterwards can self-manage and continue to go on their kind of open water journey. And we've really worked with some very complex cases and needs. So I think a big role for our future development is how we can share this learning. And also advocate within the healthcare profession about how we can use these quite cost-effective models and practices to support people's mental health and well-being at the same time of diversifying access to these kind of services as well so that's unpicking all the barriers in the first place so that it doesn't become like a homogenous just one type of person accessing them so they're truly accessible for everybody um and and looking at our impact so we. For the last couple of years, we try and everything we do is underpinned with research. So we have partnerships with various different academic partners where we look at what we want to measure and how. Like, what's the change that we want to see at Open Minds? And essentially, we want people to be less anxious, more happy and moving more. So those are kind of the three kind of metrics that we look at. And we've been using very basic tools to monitor that at the moment you know kind of before we ask people before like how they're feeling then we monitor them throughout and then we ask them at the end so we've put about 80 people through our wild swimming and well-being social prescribing program this year and we've seen an 85 percent well 85 percent of those have moved their well-being scores at the very minimum of 20 percent some of them as much as 70 or 80 percent fantastic that's that's huge and that's in a very short space of time so it's this kind of learning that we want to share with the medical community that we want to share with other practitioners. So that we can say look if we work together this this can happen across the country i'm very much My philosophy is that I like to provide local services that address local need. And so I think what we could do could be rolled out in other locations, but it would need to be contextualized and replicated in a careful way. I'm very passionate about that. I think too many times we get these big ideas and we're like, brilliant, we'll just roll this out across the country, where we need to really take time to contextualize and look at local need because there will be some similarities in every area, but there will also be some fundamental differences and people understand their communities and we need to empower communities to come up and work with their solutions. So everything we do is very much with the people. We do development with, not development to communities.

Hussain:

Got you no absolutely absolutely and and how many locations have you got at the moment i know it's obviously early early doors but like how many locations have you got.

Maggy:

So for the learn to swim we have um two locations and that's pool based because even though myself and the rest of the open minds team will swim all year round outside we appreciate it's not for everybody and also some of the health conditions that people present with or just also some of the cultural issues would mean that we need to have a space that's kind of private and where people feel comfortable and can grow their confidence. So we have two pools that we operate in in Bristol. And then for the open water, which we generally start April time, although some of the social prescribing programs, you know, we do have a weekly drop in that's running as we speak. So yesterday I was in the water with a group of women and it was a bracing five degrees in the water. um wow but we have two locations for that within Bristol so it's you know we are hyper local to Bristol and.

Hussain:

So far what's the engagement been like from healthcare professionals.

Maggy:

See this is fascinating because I when I had this idea a very good friend of mine who have is also a GP I think she rues the day that she became my friend because I've been like so I've got this idea and actually she's a huge advocate for nature as well, but she isn't a massive fan of the cold element of the cold water swimming. But I basically, we had many discussions about what we could do, kind of these really simple, empowering, enabling activities that people could do that would really build long-term sustainable habits. So nothing like really flashy and amazing, just really simple things. What what I think is such a winner about the world swimming is the community and the cake. Although obviously we are trying to foster healthy habits, but, you know, a tiny bit of cake is is not the end of the world. But that cake, that ritual, that community. And that what my what my friend found as a GP is that so many people were coming to her. And I'm sure this will resonate with you and many people who come on this podcast with all kind of complex social issues, especially in an inner city environment. And a lot of that came down to social isolation and stuff that's not fixable with, OK, well, take this medication or, you know, just go and lose weight or, you know, there's complex things here. So by referring people to us it was the social connection which was equally as important as the physical activity those and the nature so it's kind of like a triangle really those three things made such in was so impactful for people so she started referring people to under the program and some of these people were visiting her three times a week as a gp so that's a lot of time and a lot of resource after six weeks of them being on the program with us they she never saw them again she was like what's going on so they weren't coming back to the gp they were self-managing they were reducing medication and this is all anecdotal but what's exciting now is the research that we're doing with hopefully portsmouth university and in future months to look at um really understand why that is on a on a bigger scale.

Hussain:

Do you think that you would get better results i know this is at the moment as you say anecdotal but you think you get better results because it's open water swimming compared to pool swimming.

Maggy:

So that's a great question because they are quite different beasts um i think the social side equally when i look at the monday morning session you know i go into the pool we've have like Like, there's about 23 women, 24 women in the first session and the same on the second session. It's hysterical. There is laughter. There is fun. There is a lot of chatter. And there's a bit of swimming. That is the same on the Thursday morning for our social prescribing wild swim. But what's different about the wild swim element is... It's that bravery, you know, to be brave enough to get into cold water or to even get into a swimwear with people that you don't know and get into cold water is a huge thing. And so what we found with that is when people do that, they form bonds so quickly with other people in their group because they're like, we've just done this brave thing. We had no idea that we were going to be able to do this and we've done it. Oh my gosh that's amazing that has been the real kind of gold for us is how quickly these groups gel and the people that are getting referred to us from you know we've probably got about 20 referral partners for the social prescribing across Bristol and these are all in areas of deprivation. In the in the city and and it's taken time to build up that that network of referral partners and that's basically been based on on reputation and trust you know we do what we say we're going going to do we look after these people and so we're finding that more complex referrals coming our way because they know that we'll have great outcomes for them and they know those outcomes are quite quick and i think it's the way we facilitate and take care of those people but then how they quickly self-manage and take care of each other and that's what the cold water brings it brings a different element um and you know it takes some it takes some guts to get to five degree water and these women are going in they're not going in a wetsuit you know they've got oh my goodness no wetsuitless yeah they've just they've got their neoprene socks on maybe some gloves and in they go i mean when you know we keep a very close eye on people people don't stay in for very long but they get this um it stimulates that there are some physiological changes that happen in cold water that's very different from pool swimming and it stimulates this these the parasympathetic nervous system as well as the sympathetic nervous system so you get all this amazing stuff that happens and so they are different but there are lots of similarities.

Hussain:

And are there any tips that you'd give to someone that listens on here that likes to go open water swimming? I may be speaking about myself that sometimes when it comes to the temperature coming below nine degrees, I find it hard to get in the water and survive because nine has been about the lowest I can do. It's mainly my face. It gets absolutely freezing. The brain freeze. What tips do you have to someone that wants to engage? gauge because we know that cold water immersion is good and i'd love to keep swimming in the open water because i much prefer it um anything.

Maggy:

There's nothing like it then you know swimming in open water is a totally different experience from the pool um and the fact that you know you can't put your feet down and you're just swimming and swimming is great and so i think you have to change your expectation of winter and you build it over time you know i i've i was cold water swimming long before it was became trendy um i've never been particularly zeitgeist but you know who knew um but we we always encourage people to to to do your dipping within your own means like we really teach people to listen to our bodies and unfortunately for some people they're never really going to get they're never going to be able to enjoy enjoy or endure cold water swimming And that's why in the winter is very much more dipping than swimming. So I I get my You know, I swim long distances in the pool in the winter. I swim shorter distances in the winter, so I think I. If you my advice to you would be if you want to get your head in it's regular immersion so if you're if you're doing it twice once a week you'll you'll get the benefits but if you can do it twice a week you will you'll be surprised at how quickly you acclimatize but the key is just to not stay in too long and don't force yourself to stay in too long if you do want to do swim like proper swimming get the right kit so there's some amazing thermal wetsuits out there you can get like the kind of thermal balaclava head things um i mean you're still yes i think i need.

Hussain:

One of those.

Maggy:

Gloves some proper gloves some proper boots if you want to swim swim that's great but regular immersion listening to your body and just building it up slowly so it might be that something you know you just get in for a couple of minutes the first time that's absolutely fine and everyone's different and then we we take the ego out of cold water swimming as well there's no place for ego it's It's about, you know, I even now when I go down to various lakes, you know, I stayed in for 10 minutes today and I'm like, you know, you you stay in for whatever suits you. But what we try and do afterwards to encourage that movement is that the fun, like in rewarming, you know, lots of squats and making sure that you don't just sit down afterwards and kind of sit in your dry robe with a giant slab of cake. Cake that even though the cake is nice but just to have a nice warm drink and move you know whether that's squats or just kind of going for a brisk walk kind of get that movement going whereas in the summer you know we can swim for however long we want generally because the water is so lovely and warm but yeah listen to your body and also always go with somebody else if you're not sure, go to a lake that's either well lifeguarded don't just head off into the middle of nowhere for a a nice winter dip by the river, you know, just go with someone who knows what they're doing and take your time and don't stay in too long.

Hussain:

Really good tips there really good tips and i think it's one of those things that for sure you can prepare yourself each time you know you can become more acclimatized you can get used to it i remember when i was sort of struggling um trying it was in stony cove i don't know if you've been there but it's 90 degrees and i i was frozen to death and like really struggling and then you know a lady came in in just her swimsuit just went went for a swim as if as if no tomorrow and i asked i was like can you not feel this like i feel like i'm being stabbed by a thousand knives and she was just like do you know what yeah i did like about five years ago but then like after a while you just keep going keep going and you you get acclimatized to it and actually they're saying like for example with brown fat development that that very much increases with regular cold immersion it's very interesting the studies that they're looking at brown fat and how how that plays a role in improving metabolism and helping to sort of generate that heat. And I think it's a fantastic way to just try to, you know, slowly acclimatize to it. But as you say, it takes time to push things. It's not about pushing beyond, but just doing that little bit.

Maggy:

It takes time. So, you know, I've been cold water. Every season that I do this, I find it not necessarily easier, but there is that acclimatization. And I know some of the women who've been prescribed to us who were like they were like no way am I going to be able to do this all winter and the first winter they did it with their wetsuits and their gloves and you know everything this you know two years on they're not so but it's taken that time and I'm I'm like I'm certainly no wetsuit snob I'm just like whatever you need to get into the water you put it on you know you do you like it doesn't matter it, Just keep going. Consistency, like any habit, consistency is key. So and if you can do it twice a week or even three times a week, then that's you will acclimatize really quickly. But we're all so different. And, you know, I think it's no surprise that a lot of menopausal women, myself included, are literally throwing themselves in the water. Because it does help relieve some of those sentences we quite often laugh with um you know that there are women around that sort of perimenopausal and menopausal age and we joke and we say we reckon like if all of us get in the lake together we probably raise the lake temperature by about two degrees so it's a hot spring i'm sure yeah so it does help with those with those symptoms too and i think women for that reason are naturally quite um quite good at withstanding the temperatures and.

Hussain:

Have you seen the craze out there that you can buy like either like a big barrel or they sort of small sort of tubs um and people sort of having cold water immersions in the garden like what are your thoughts about that do you think that you are getting the same positive stimulus or is that just a fad for someone to sell you a tub for many hundred pounds I.

Maggy:

Mean it's really personal right for for me and for the women that we speak to like it helps with that acclimatization for sure and I've got friends who will get in their barrel and they'll be like why I feel great um but there is no replacement for the social connection and being in nature and that immersion of immersing yourself in a body of water rather than just sitting in a tub in the garden I think it really helps acclimatization and so if you're if you want to do an ice mile for example and you want to sit in your barrel in the garden, great and I know some people who love it but I think um. What we're trying to do is have that. And what you see at all these lakes and coastal towns and rivers and seas is this community of doing things with other people that will kind of give you that longer term habit. I think, and will also lead to other activities. Activities so what's interesting about even just having water knowledge and water safety that we've seen with a lot of the women especially the women of color who've learned to swim with us there was no habit in their life around you know if they work on holiday they would look at the sea but they'd be like oh yeah that's nice i'm not going in that and the same with rivers and lakes whereas that's totally reframed their connection with the outdoors and with nature and with swimming and so now they're like the rest of this they're eyeing up thinking oh can i get in that that looks good um but it's also opened up other activities for them so we had one lady who's a refugee from Syria who learned to swim with us and she'd already been in this country for five years and she hadn't really made many friends so a barrel in the garden wouldn't have made much difference to her but she learned to swim then she came outdoor swimming she gained confidence she met loads of other women her English improved she then came on our surfing program because we run loads of other water activities during the summer she's then had so she's done stand-up paddleboarding she's done surfing she's now got a part-time job in an activity field so that it's all of that other stuff that's happened so I think um all these things where we can you know do that self-care and look after us by getting into our barrels in the garden that's amazing that's brilliant but it will never be a replacement for doing. Things together with others in nature.

Hussain:

I think that's spot on. I think you can use sort of the analogy of a treadmill in your garage for what, you know, you can get from running in trails and actually being in nature in a group sort of running. Absolutely spot on. Yeah, there's that Kenyan saying of if you want to run fast, you run alone. If you want to run far, you run together. And, you know, we've heard this so many times on this podcast, the power that community plays in movement. and you know we've got to always remember that ways of of using it not just to get active but.

Maggy:

As otherwise.

Hussain:

You know to connect with each other connect with nature and i think that's what open water swimming does so well you know they're often some of the most beautiful landscapes is where you can you know open water swim you can it's pinchy moments often.

Maggy:

And i think you know we're looking now like because we're we're a social enterprise we're at cic and so some of our programs are grant funded but we want to kind of we believe that a lot of the stuff that we can do we want to kind of teach others to have that community and that community might be in their workplace, or it might be with their family so we run like little affordable workshops where people can come and learn about it um safely but also to meet other like-minded people so that they can it. We found it the most empowering i've seen it the most the ripple effect which is a dreadful pun sorry but open water open water swimming has because of the community of this doing it together because it is a bit like oh my goodness I'm going into this lake and I don't know anybody and oh so once they've got past that and they've had this amazing experience they want to do it again and again and then there's like well if I can do it here I want to go there I want to try it there I'm going to organize with this group and do that so it's um it's opening up a lot of opportunities and spaces for people that maybe they didn't know about, particularly for people that live that are living with long term health conditions that would just think, oh, well, it's not for me. You know, we've seen an incredible impact for those living with autoimmune illnesses like MS, like fibromyalgia, chronic pain, who with regular immersion have started alleviating their symptoms. Now, it doesn't cure their condition. We know this, but it's all the other, the peripheral impacts this has on their mental health and well-being and their general like, right, I'm going to do something for myself. Like, yeah, I'm not going to be able to necessarily join a netball team, but I'm going to do this and then I can do a bit more. Particularly the MS sufferers the colder the better for them so because of how it reduces inflammation in their body once they come out of the cold water they find that we see a lot of the women who swim with us are moving much better and that can last for a good few hours afterwards so some of the MS sufferers. Referrals that we have you know they swim pretty much every day and they they say to me like we don't like the sewer because it gets too warm they want that cold so it'll be the opposite for you.

Hussain:

Yeah no god no no it can't be warm enough um but yeah no that that's that's really powerful to hear, and maggie one of the things that we often you know talk about on this podcast is is what we call the obesogenic environment. So an environment designed to not promote physical activity, but to promote inactivity and processed food and loss of that connection and community. And it can be quite demoralizing because you're relatively powerless in controlling that environment. Environment now do you see that open water swimming over the last few years it feels like it's had a bit of a renaissance in popularity do you see that that persisting and that continuing or are we just going to move on to another sort of uh sort of focus and sort of trend.

Maggy:

I mean i can only say what i see here locally i know um i haven't i can't remember the facts off the top of my head but i think in the swim england report that or the sport england active live survey there was an incredible like exponential increase in in those open water swimming i i can't see it stopping i think if anything it will increase and that's partly due to the activism around clean water because the other challenge in this country is if you're swimming in rivers um these rivers can be polluted they're having sewage overflows are being released you know raw sewage is being released at certain times into our river network or our water network as a whole coastals rivers and seas you know that that shouldn't be happening in 2023 and i think more and more people especially in the cities if you. Think by i think it's by 2050 i think um over half of the population are going to be living in cities so we have to have a solution where people can access spaces so a big part of what i'm doing at the moment is i'm looking at how we can open up bristol harbour for example which is right in the heart of the city um the the water quality of the water is actually is regularly tested and we've been working with the council to kind of look at any peaks and troughs in that water quality when there's been lots of rain it's not great but we have run a few pilots over the summer to open up harbour swimming so that people can swim in Bristol Harbour. Now we had in, oh my gosh, I think it was five weeks, over 900 people came. In five weeks over that we had saturday and sundays so that tells me there is a huge need and i think the reason for that is unfortunately we had to charge for that swim because it cost us a lot to put on but i would like to see much more affordable or free like in places like copenhagen where um you can swim you know that that's a cultural shift and that's only increasing in popularity and i think if we can open up spaces like that make sure that those waterways are clean and the water is clean but have it in places which is accessible for people so they can walk or they can cycle that's a double whammy and I think that will only increase and there is a huge demand and it's increasing the lakes that we use in and around Bristol you need a car or and some of them aren't on a bus so having something that's accessible right in the heart of the city and like Manchester do that as well there's lots of like London as well in the parts of Docklands I i think open up so i i think it's it's going to increase rather than decrease but i think we have a responsibility to to make sure that it's accessible for all and that we reduce barriers for those who are not able to swim there for whatever reason that's what the community grassroots organizations i think have such an important role to play but i think it's only going to get bigger so.

Hussain:

With that in mind i'm hopeful as well that this will be you know continued trend of growth something that i ask all the guests on my episodes is what do they think physical activity levels are going to be like in 20 years time bearing in mind that from the 1960s You know, we are significantly less active than we were then. Do you feel that in 20 years time, we're going to be more active, less active or about the same? And why?

Maggy:

I have to say I'm an optimist. I am an optimist. The older I get, I'm more cynical, but I still try and maintain some level of optimism. I think that will depend on how we approach climate change and how... How the the value that we put on ourselves and how we move through the world as human beings with each other so I think there's even though activity levels might have dropped there is still people kind of know they should be more active but it's been polarized and you've kind of got these you know that like a lot of things in this country at the moment there are lots of polarized views and there's extremes and i'm hoping that with initiatives like social prescribing whether that's swimming on prescription like which which what we what we do or whether that's um cycling or walking or um arts or whatever where people are coming together if we can make a concerted effort to kind of rather than putting the emphasis on people like you need to do this because of your health but like hey what about if you did this and you felt so much better and you made all these new friends and you enjoyed doing it I think if we can frame it the right way and we can bring people with us on the journey rather than kind of preaching about what they should do then I think we have a chance to increase activity levels and I'm you know I'm from a sport community sports sports background. And I see what amazing community projects are doing around children and young people. And I've also seen how quickly you can change things. So for many of the women that have learned to swim with us in the last couple of years before them, they were adult women who were doing no activity. And by that, I mean, what we're supposed to do, I think it's, is it like 60 minutes, vigorous exercise three times a week? Is that like the benchmark?

Hussain:

So, yes, 150 minutes total for moderate exercise. For vigorous, if you're just doing vigorous, it's 75 minutes. But then you can have a blend of the two with sort of vigorous activity counting for doubles. So let's say if you go for a half an hour run, that counts as 60 minutes of moderate. So about 150 total for adults.

Maggy:

So I would say these women were doing nothing, like absolutely nothing. And they never had, they'd never done anything. thing and at least so all of them now are doing 45 minutes swimming a week at the very minimum but what we've seen is that the others are now like if this is the thing if you work with women specifically women who are influential in their families they are now going swimming with their kids once a week they also are walking more they're trying new sports and activities and And these are people who have done nothing, who have gone from zero. So I think it could be bleak, but if we approach it the right way and we take people with us and we co-create with and we offer some activities that are fun and engaging that people want to do, we can reverse that. So I'm going to say we will be more active because I have to believe that and I want to believe that and I think we can do that. And I've seen that happen in just the three years. And, you know, our tiny organization, you know, there's five of us. And we've engaged 1,300 people in the last 12 months. And that's which has blown our minds. You know, 80 of those were on the social prescribing program. Another 100 of those were on the learn to swim. Then there's all our workshops. Then there's the harbor swims. And these aren't just kind of one-offs. This is kind of quite regular engagement. So it can be done if you give people what they want and what they enjoy.

Hussain:

Fantastic. Thank you so much, Maggie, for giving us your time, sharing your insights and letting us know a bit about some of the incredible work you've been doing. If there are health care professionals, people in the physical activity sector that are listening and want to engage with yourself, what's the best way to contact? Can they follow you on certain social media channels?

Maggy:

Yep. So we are we have a YouTube channel. one thing I would say is we're about representation in open water swimming as well and um we released um four like very short films which basically people's stories about their journey and their connection with water and open water swimming and these are people that wouldn't normally be visible in open water so our youtube channel which is open minds active um has those videos on there and they're really they're really inspiring in a world in a time where like it can be a bit doom and gloom. They're really beautiful films. They're only like four minutes long. So definitely if you want to feel good about the world, go and watch those. But my Instagram is also, and Facebook is Open Minds Active. So you can message us through there. And we do have, I've worked with healthcare professionals around developing, to educate social prescribers or just sometimes people are like, Maggie, who should we, how do we refer and who should we prescribe onto these programs and why so we do have some kind of factual information that we can share with healthcare professionals around the benefits so that they know that they're referring the right people onto these kind of programs so yeah we've we've we're a mine of information we've got loads that um we're happy to share.

Hussain:

Thank you so much and it's been a pleasure having you on the podcast.

Maggy:

Oh it's been great i've been been really enjoying listening to them so far so I will eagerly await the next.

Hussain:

A really useful discussion there and I think Maggie quite rightly focuses on the community aspect of her groups you know the way that she's able to engage individuals that may not naturally see open water swimming as an activity for them building up their confidence using the pool and finding ways to allow that progression, that natural progression, because I think we all know it is difficult going into the open water. It can be a little bit more nerve wracking, not being able to see the bottom, coping with the colder temperatures and sort of having that kind of element of risk that I think, you know, is naturally there when it comes to open water. But that can be mitigated, as she rightly said, by taking certain measures in place, doing it in groups and ensuring it's in venues which are safe. And you know she focused on a couple of concerning areas and and that's the quality of the spaces that we're using and and and our concern now about the water quality and and the issues with terms of sewage leaks or wash offs from farming practices is something that we're gonna need to to explore and advocate more of. And I think healthcare professionals need to play their role in that, in ensuring that the water that we swim in is safe and is healthy. Now, one of the key takeaways that I'm gonna move forward with from these conversations is that when it comes to engaging those in our community. We as healthcare professionals can really help to identify those that as of yet haven't found their movement. And using our social prescribing teams, we can look to engage local initiatives like Open Minds Active does in Bristol. We can engage our local groups, whether it be mental health swim groups who have loads of locations across the United Kingdom or another group, just connecting with our assets that are in our area can be really fundamental if we're going to find an engaging activity for our patients. So I guess one takeaway could be engaging with our social prescribers and finding out from them what groups they know about and then working together to encourage and support the patient to make changes which align with their values and their interests. I hope you found it helpful, and I'm definitely going to buy some neoprene gloves and booties so that I can try and brave slightly colder temperatures than I've thus far achieved.